So I just learned a thing

"K-Roll-PorscheTamer" (k-roll390) 04/13/2017 at 16:45 • Filed to: TMYK

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Clutch pedal travel=/=clutch travel. Having to learn manual without much help, I always thought the clutch wasn’t disengaged until the pedal was on the floor; which caused me to move my seat up in any manual car I drove. Adjusting my seat in Scout, I found out by accident that this wasn’t the case and I can move my seat back to a comfortable position because the clutch travel is actually really short.

I saw this Fiero GT on the way to class.

superhead > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 16:48

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I always adjust my seat so that when I reach my arms straight out over the steering wheel, my wrists rest on the top of the wheel.

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 16:49

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Conversely, if you have something janky with wear in the linkage, it is totally not impossible to have the pedal on the floor and the clutch still engaged. Or for the clutch to be in the “disengaged” position and have the disc sticking to the flywheel because it feels like it.

TahoeSTi > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 16:50

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The best way to find that point on any car, put in it first gear on flat ground and slowly lift up the clutch pedal until you move forward, note the spot it starts to grab that’s the engagement point, every car is different. You should be able to move any manual car on flat ground in first gear without using any gas. You can even keep shift up the gears and never use the gas pedal.....And you can shift without using your clutch pedal once you’re moving...once you know the right rpms for each gear.

DipodomysDeserti > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 16:52

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You should still push the pedal to the floor.

WilliamsSW > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 16:53

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Yeah, I think it varies a lot by car, too.

I recall driving a few old cars where the clutch did start to engage with only a little bit of pedal travel. But my bmw probably goes at least halfway up before anything happens.

I still sit a lot closer in stick cars v autos though. Just a comfort thing for me?

404 - User No Longer Available > superhead 04/13/2017 at 16:53

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You watched AMG Academy on how to adjust seats?

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > DipodomysDeserti 04/13/2017 at 16:53

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Why’s that?

HammerheadFistpunch > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 16:55

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The clutch can still drag and heat up if its not fully decoupled. To the floor is the safe bet.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 16:56

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Always push the pedal to the floor anyway as you don’t want the clutch being ‘ridden’ even the slightest bit when changing gears if you THINK you have the pedal pushed in far enough to disengage the clutch fully! :)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > HammerheadFistpunch 04/13/2017 at 16:56

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I guess I’ll still have to fiddle with my seat to find a good position then.

HammerheadFistpunch > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 16:57

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It can be a pain. I remember my forester had a much longer throw than the rest of the pedals and it meant sitting closer to the wheel than I would have chosen otherwise.

RallyDarkstrike - Fan of 2-cyl FIATs, Eastern Bloc & Kei cars > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 16:57

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If you THINK you have it pushed far enough to disengage, it could still be MOSTLY, but not completely disengaged, so the disk may still be rubbing, wearing it out sooner. Pushing it to the floor every time ensures they are completely apart during the gear change, minimizing wear (unless your clutch is massively out of adjustment).

Bytemite > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 16:58

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It’s something you still can’t be absolutely sure of. You’ll be able to shift pressing the pedal half-way even, but that doesn’t mean the clutch is disengaged halfway. It might be 90% lifted at halfway pedal and complete overkill at full-stop, but it’s just better safe than sorry?

Tareim - V8 powered > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 17:01

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The best position I find is stretch your arms out straight and rest them on the steering wheel, your wrists should be the part touching the wheel rather than your hand or forearm. adjust seat accordingly till you get that right

WilliamsSW > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 17:01

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Also the pedal probably needs to be on the floor to start the car.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > WilliamsSW 04/13/2017 at 17:04

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It didn’t when I started it this afternoon, but every other time I would put my foot all the way to the floor. It’s odd to me.

DipodomysDeserti > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 17:08

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Because if it is all the way down then you know for sure the clutch is fully disengaged (assuming it is adjusted properly). It’s hard to feel if it is disengaged, and if it happens not to be you’ll grind gears or drag the clutch. Same reason you always let it all the way up even if you don’t have to.

WilliamsSW > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 17:08

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There should be a safety switch that requires the pedal to be down to engage the starter, unless the car is really old or someone removed it, but I’m not even sure how far my own pedal has to be down to trip it. Maybe it’ll work part way up I guess?

and 100 more > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 17:10

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I hope you tailed that Fiero wherever he was headed, and gave him one of these:

Good to see ya back. :)

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > WilliamsSW 04/13/2017 at 17:14

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It’s a 2017, so I’ll experiment some more after class I reckon.

Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa > TahoeSTi 04/13/2017 at 17:24

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With a somewhat decent powered car, you can do that. But almost all Euro econoboxes will stall at the whiff of not touching the gas pedal. Even some high powered cars will not do that willingly. My ex-car, manual 280 CLK will just stall if you don’t feather the throttle a little bit.

RPM matching shifts are a high level wizardry, that needs a lot of experience to not destroy your gearbox.

WilliamsSW > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 17:43

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Something fun to play around with!

TahoeSTi > Shady Balkan Subject, Drives an Alfa 04/13/2017 at 17:46

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Just feather the clutch pedal they’ll all start without the gas pedal. I’ve done it in a Fiat Punto with 80hp , a 90's VW Jetta with 90 hp, and all sorts of Porches, Fords, Jeeps, BMWs and Subarus.

Shifting without the clutch isn’t hard you just have to know the car and be smooth and not too forceful I’ve also done this in most if not all of the above cars.

Captain of the Enterprise > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 18:08

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Welcome back! How are you doing?

Urambo Tauro > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 18:15

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Ooh, that is a nice Fiero!

Y’know, I had a misconception for a while where I thought that RPM was a direct indicator of MPG. lol

The Compromiser > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 18:18

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Switch is above and works on an active range. Once it’s set, there is a disengaged point that OKs the interlock to allow starting.*

* I used to make pedal assemblies. Including the Mouse Tang.

And you should push it most of the way to the floor to ensure the CMC pushes enough fluid to the clutch. The floor is assemblies end of pedal travel but not actually the clutch stroke required. Close, but not entirely.

K-Roll-PorscheTamer > Captain of the Enterprise 04/13/2017 at 18:21

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Struggling every now and then, but still fighting I suppose.

Captain of the Enterprise > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 18:35

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Everyday is a little victory for me when I make it, I’m glad your still here.

Jayhawk Jake > TahoeSTi 04/13/2017 at 18:58

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The Mustang increases its RPM on its own at that point too.

TahoeSTi > Jayhawk Jake 04/13/2017 at 19:09

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No it doesn’t it stays at 550-600rpms, at least in my pushrod 5.0....it’s heavy ass flywheel helps....you can shift it up to 5th gear and go 25mph with out ever touching the gas.

Jayhawk Jake > TahoeSTi 04/13/2017 at 19:35

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It does in the EB like Karl is driving. It’s something in the ECU programming, as the clutch starts to engage it’ll jump to about 1200 RPM on its own.

wafflesnfalafel > K-Roll-PorscheTamer 04/13/2017 at 20:49

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my dad had a 1970 VW beetle growing up and the mechanic we used, great guy, great mechanic, but he’d adjust the engagement point every time he’d work on it. Have to re-learn to shift every time!

superhead > 404 - User No Longer Available 04/14/2017 at 18:49

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Lol no, but I do think I saw it in a video somewhere. Maybe it was one of those videos Randy Pobst did about how to drive better.

404 - User No Longer Available > superhead 04/14/2017 at 20:19

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Yeah, because what you said was literally the first lesson of the series.

MM54 > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 04/18/2017 at 19:17

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Solution to the latter is jack up the driven wheels, put it in 1st, put the clutch in, rev it up, and jam on the brakes.

Having dealt with the former, you figure out the right revs pretty quickly.